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In today’s episode Bruce has on a special Guest, Jeremy to talk about what it was like to come back into the hobby after a number of years away and under new life circumstances as well as focusing in on behavioral economics that can play into purchasing and selling of games. Josh was away for this one but will be back on the next episode. We hope you enjoy this different type of episode and a special thanks to Jeremy for joining the show!
Specific Games Discussed: Dominion by Rio Grande Games, Wingspan by Stonemaier Games, Food Chain Magnate by Splotter Spellen, Innovation by Asmadi Games, Gemstone Mining by USA Opoly, and more!
To see what the Virtual Flee Market MeetUp was like at BGG click here: https://youtu.be/e9c5cFjfGLs
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—Transcript (made with artificial intelligence, coming soon)—
0:08 – 1:04:05
in today’s episode a board game impact i have a really special treat for you in which we bring on ainu guest wall josh’s away for this episode but i think you’re really gonna enjoy learning about some behavioral economics in gaming as well some really cool games stay tuned welcomed the board game impact my name is bruce brown in a board game impact will we seek to do is combined are passion for education enter education literal education to with are amazing board game hobby in this great hobby that we’ll be a part of my doing doing that were able to do is were able to dissect experiences that were having that way we can educate you on them so that way you can have in for information to make meaningful decisions will benefit you and your gaming group now that sounds like something of interest you do make sure click that subscribe button as well as checkout checkout are platforms on facebook and instagram but if you really wanna know the behind the scenes of how this goes on hop on over the patriots on ice if you go to patriot dot com slash board game impact you could find out on their i’ve been personally making little videos about some really cool updates one of the ones i just did out there to the patrons first was learning that we are now available on iheartradio so if you have any smart device in your house that had a alexa or i heart radio installs if you like listening to the radio working you’re doing it through i heart radio you could now just search board game impact and are patrons were able to hear about that first but those patrons there so phenomenal phenomenal because they’re literally is the support that help make this show reality not enough about that stuff today we have a really cool thing going on so sadly if you’re a longtime listener you know josh has been on the show for a bunch of episodes he is still around but for this episode he’s been doing a lot of traveling around the country i’m talking at least four five states in a week and a half so kudos josh and also him getting to recalibrate after all of these things listeners don’t don’t worry he’s not gone he’s coming back but i thought it’d be really cool to bring somebody else onto this podcast for today because why not here from two different perspectives answer this individual isn’t amazing individual that i got the chance to meet eat at board game spring and so with that i’m actually just gonna turn it over to my interview with him so he could learn about him learn how we met and all those cool things but i think you’re really gonna get a lot out of this episode so listening all right welcome back listeners i we’re just so thankful you can be here today so real quick we do actually have any special guest on the show today in josh will not be joining us today which is really sad but josh and it’s it’s that time of the season and so and time of year so justice and things going on so with that being said why not have a special guest and the special guest is also someone who i got to meet through this wonderful hobby and he’s just has a really great voice i that i think will add a lot to a lot of value to you listeners and i think it’s gonna be really fun episode so with that being said i would also like to just introduced germany germany say hi hello everyone goodness bruce thank thank you for that that that really warm in in kind introduction i couldn’t have been more up please just nice you at a working spring a an ad especially it’d be joining you this evening and listeners if you’re listening to this at the time of this launching this is just after the fourth of july holiday here in the united states and jeremy is actually in the united states armed forces in the air force end just one i also just say thank you for you and your service and everybody else out there who has served her has family who has served as i know it’s not just that individual but it’s a family affair and so thank you jeremy for all that a hey a thank you i’ll i’ll send on sending my own thinks a out a i told us service members the soldiers sailors airmen marines a out there fighting are wars and especially grateful bruce that you did mention families because i am it’s kind of nice and flattering to be things for one service but if you count my my my wife and my kids i i know you’re getting it right so that being said germany like you said you and i got the meat actually board game big spring ’em in a very interesting circumstances actually we met because you bought something from me a so we met a buying a game online from germany you’re gonna kind of talk about what that experience was a short absolutely so we connected through d virtual flea market which is eight geek list on working geek dot com where in a willing sellers can offer up games eiter for ’em other for a flat fee purchases or an auction style or what usually happens as a seller will say hey i’d like this much for that game and and somebody makes an offer and they find themselves a making a purchase somewhere in the middle of the way this is done you do all the negotiating on the on the front in through if you’re working keep trying and then you show up for one hour during the convention innocent mad dash to find all the games you bought a in in in all the games that you so unless there’s actually took a photo during that experience and so i’m gonna be uploading it i’m gonna put it on the website in the show notes for this one so go check that out ’em it was it was insane in a really good way though ’cause you get the meet a lot of people and spread the hobby and so jeremy and i met up ’cause he was buying a game for me that we negotiated beforehand but then we actually got the talking and come to find out you have a pretty cool career what do you do i’m a clinical psychologist in the united states air force in yeah and so i was just thinking that is a really cool perspective and really breaking down those experiences and offering shedding some light on the behavioral interactions with jeremy and i started talking and then we quickly evolved into how about you come on the show because i think this is a meaningful content that could mean a lot for are audience but then you also talked about something else and that is that you’re actually just now getting back into the hobby bobby end that for a while you actually moved away from the hobby while you’re going to grad school is that correct absolutely so well first of all i’ll tell you that on that it wasn’t a wasn’t really by choice that that i wasn’t very active a in the hobby if if i’d had my way there wouldn’t have been any sort of break but a in in two thousand twelve a is when i first began board gaining more regularly that win a board game tiki user a red word introduced me to a dominion a and and and i wish i i wish i was just smitten ’cause i played settlers and munchkin an end bonanza the being harming game before but but but this is something else entirely it reminded me of plane magic the gathering in fact what you talked about on on the last episode a whiskey exception that i didn’t have to the heavily invested like it just you know get get playing the game well a way back then that kind of all he’s playing until i went to a smaller regional gaining kahn which is gained con in memphis they were hosting it dominion tournament so i thought i would show up and kind of ’em let’s see what was going on without end up winning a matter of fact i i wonder next annual congressional well we have an award winner and her presence y’all short but with a where i met people playing a a number of different games into his more exposed to be community of war gaming amy than necessarily just the game that my friends and i were playing a back then i i was playing a number of social deduction games and they were they were pretty hot at the time and that’s what my friends in the holiday replaying so we play resistance adeline in some times out battle star galactica i’m a very i figured that when we get some kind of action lutely absolutely are you a tile on a disney desk i’m i’m austin silo okay and there were the number one on a two rooms in a boom if you know that game yeah so so i used to play test to revisit a boom without a board game peak user no limit please we playing it for a couple of years before it was released actually that is the game actually in my collection that i hold onto because it has an interesting thing of playing from eight players still like thirty six which is insane and so when i work with college students it’s actually pretty perfect to take out the classes oh absolutely correct that i’m sure would be incredible for that a firm that you know sometimes i do at west ’em with you search like at church ’em but i guess finishing a kind of what what what happened for me i i was playing teams a tablet builders innovation corridor on still some of my absolute favorite over the next couple of years starting to try out some some heavier games to a an and i was going back to back to grad school of for the second time this time a the clinical psychology phd while i was cheering that on my my first child was born my son he he he’s now a five and a half so oh oh yeah if you if you can’t date back to that time period you know i’m spending time at home with my my wife and i and my son she’s not really wanting me to to go out to these gaming meet ups anymore without even if other people’s homes or you even even at stores in this changed a bit at one one of the reasons is my son got old enough to play some games when when when he was three we certainly broke out a animal upon animal and mons a and a what is he love now race for the treasure and now he’s fighter plane magic is but that’s kind of coming back around but what i would say really really changed is i i started finding games that my wife liked and when when we made made it that work let’s say two three years ago then she’s been much more willing to let me do something like cocoa to a a pg spring and see what you did there so what is what is my wife into yeah she likes a fully kellogg games i’m i’m hit or miss on whether fully pillow up is is exactly what i’m wanting scott is i do enjoy a competitive edge ahead but it’s very much like doing it with her and i also really enjoy be a legacy type games so a before bg we played identically season one would ask yeah it’s like all right in that sweet spot yeah that’s right and and we lost lost twice so if you’re familiar with really impressive actually yeah it’s all about the game of so the game a pencil neck like a season one is a derivative of pandemic so you’re basically playing these standard gain endemic except some stuff happens and i will tell you know spoiler to no spoilers but but stuff happens over the course of an endgame here and so each month a it’s in quotation each month you’re a you’re playing a one scenario and you have two shots to to win so if you win first time you go the next month if you lose you play again if you lose twice who’s going next month so you end up playing twelve twenty four games well the the issue is that there is eight difficulty correction mechanism where if you win too much the game just gets harder and harder on in so to say that we lost twice i understand it’s kind of unusual it is but that would have gone real hard for you real quick then it’s really hard ’em now in nc now were doing the same season to we’re in september we just lost her second game in in for non spoiler reasons i can’t say what happened but a pandemic season two is not exactly pendant mc it’s a it’s an exploration game where you’re also playing pandemic a an and i got a little over zealous is far as what we could get john secular scenario yeah there’s a lot going on in season to that’s a lot different because you’re actually like adding we know in these games listeners if you haven’t played these ones you’re actually adding stickers or or things to the board that changed the game state from then on until something else happens so yeah if you’re trying to do a lot that could that escalate real quick thanks for that clarification bruce on appreciate it i guess some of what i notice as coming back to the hobby is there’s a lot that i missed that people take for granted that i know that i know what magic mazes that i have that i know why some people like us oil in some people don’t based on different degrees of is it or is it not hate drafting listen i used to play a role in rights when when i was a kid but apparently there with this whole rolling right standing up and and i’m a i’m quite taken with gone sean clever but i didn’t even realize what a bunch of awards you know yeah and johnson clever i mean i am addicted tv app for that ’cause i tried forever together from germany i’m glad stronghold games in indie game studios finally bringing it as well dot belts gone as well as bricks of two i’m i’m addicted those games were wolfgang wars just to let you know that i would take to integrate like if i like gunshot clever and lifestyle supplier which i’m presuming is the same thing but harder yeah but it also has a pink die what’s the paint how do tiger so real real quick listeners a gun some clever is they rolling right game in which you roll the dice you pick one of those die and depending on how many pips showings if you pick the one that’s just three everything with less than three goes on this like literal silver platter an you have this little player board that you’re writing on most people end up printing it out and then laminating it so they don’t after using a separate sheets of paper just wipe it off every time and they’re marking things often depending on what you mark off you get different points there’s one that just it’s like straight number there’s another one where you have to have the neck at least a number of higher m v dot belt clever actually has the numbers we have to work down with the penguin i believe is you work down from six to one and then it resets back to six but it uses the same rules that where if you take a high number you eliminate all these other ones and have the put among the silver platter and you can’t choose off the silver platter so limited it’s so much tighter yeah bruce what i what i love the most about of war gaming up speaking from my personal experience is a making meaningful decisions and what i love the second most about four games just just personally a is their ability to expand your mind perspective and i’m really confused right now but it it exciting way but i want to explore yeah absolutely absolutely and like i said let’s just coming out ’em it’s about the hit the streets safer stronghold in indie game studio so check that out but there’s also an application you could download on iowa’s or android devices is well i guess around things out on the whole yeah what what about title away from from from games coming back on i talked about a starting with stunt men and i missed the game that i really really liked which is mystic fail to right which is eight so so dominion a deck building game and the mystic bail i learned at bg find a is eight deck crafting game so using a sleeve mechanic you actually as you’re building near deck changed what you’re according to do and how information is on in a setting that i want to explore more yeah so listeners if you’ve ever had like those high school report cards that you slip into the binders is that kind of thing but like a terrible size card with three sections and you could add different front powers in so it’s a really cool and clever mechanism her just don’t leave it out in the heat out a careful it i don’t leave it in direct sun pretty long ’cause i have seen a picture of that and so just be careful keep it in air conditioning keep it in not outside side but so that’s really cool so you had dominion you had mystic vail you had already played some role in right since you’re coming back in with it just like getting hit with a soon nami of like whoa like a whole new world like aladdin in style like what would like how would you describe it a i felt really felt very comfortable for me because when it came into the hobby the first time i was trying to consume all of this this big website called of working keep dot com and i was trying to learn about currency as far as what is this thing called hot mess and how did how did the national kind of hot does really at all to what my friends and my group were doing an end so this time it was more like i kind of know what i’m looking for and also i don’t need to be a quite quiet is concerned with with what’s new or even what hot because well from for five years that i was awake people are still playing something there’s a good chance it’s good so that’s kind of where i spent my time with what are people talking about whether they still play i would have played acting yeah absolutely and i’m also in that same mindset of don’t get me wrong as a podcast her i’m also trying to stay in play all of that many of the hotness games as i can because let’s find the new cool things plus i really enjoy that but also let’s go back to these oldies but goodies there is phenomenal games and let’s not a let’s not sweep under the rug you’re just move on and that’s what we try and do and pulling in some different games and actually so transitioning a little bit germany sure that being said what’s the game you’ve been playing recently ’em well i suppose it depends on if we wanna say game i’ve been playing hotness or something that’s a bit of a throwback i’ll start with one if you wanna give her the other ’em be absolute game of the colon well the games at the con as we know where tiny towns in wingspan absolutely the game of the con for me a was western legends a yes this sandbox games thing happened an end so listeners a western legend is eight fairly big box game where if you if there’s something that people used to do and they were outlaws in the wild west you could basically in this game a you can rob the bank you can mind for gold you can steal cattle you can be an outlaw you can young marshall a and it’s it’s played in such a way where if you wanted it to be a pickup and delivery it could if you wanted it to be a point grab it could but what i loved about whether it’s a hybrid this is dave point and radin best strategy wins go to look into europe game and so after having much debate with myself about a how much it cost on amazon i realized i grabbed one of the last six a shrink copies in the first printing and then the which which were gonna get to later i think could could the price skyrocketed but i’ve been with my parents with my wife with my friends with my don’t play games friends who’ve been playing western legend oh that’s phenomenal phenomenal into listeners there’s another cool thing about this a game like this western legends of the game they actually hit the table a lot from i gave me group here we just haven’t gotten around talking about it yet so like here now on it also comes with a deck of cards and it’s literally a deck of cards like ’cause you’ve literally if you want to go walk new and old west saloon and play poker at the table yeah you stop everything else going on in the game and you play a hand up tech kind of hybrid texas holden poker ’em it’s really really fun you could do all those different things and so yeah western legends phenomenal it’s really great to hear that you’re able to get that to the table with non gamers all i’ve been able to play with people who are gamers and so the pickup and delivery mechanics and those kind of things they kinda get how is it introducing all of those layers sure sure well i suppose i didn’t spend as much time on the mechanics of it because if i was like hey there’s nine different things you can do any of them i i think that might have been a bit of overwhelming it was more like a with my mother who who who i think like you is on it is isn’t educator it was like hey look if if you wanna be jesse james calamity jane and learn about who they were in the west you can be them and you you can’t you can’t what kind of learn something here a an and also the the idea of yes you could play poker over the game and it’s so much fun to do that to to have a medic game it i guess it’s more than an inch for a game if you wanna get really creepy about it but it’s a half game over the game that’s happening but also how poker carter how you fight have motorcars how you how how they’re also currency basically so so we introduced it more on were kind of like that she does you wanna get in half of course absolutely and that’s a really great idea let’s find be of course thing that they can kind of rally around but then expand from there right if they choose to do something then deacon parcel out those rules and so jeremy we’ve talked about a couple of games have been playing we talked about some experiences with layering knowledge and things like that but you actually suggested a really cool topic for this episode that i think are listeners are gonna really enjoy and make them really consider what things are going on for them and motivating them and some decision making so i’m gonna let you kind of introduce the topic and then what kind of go back and forth off of these little bullet points here right sure thanks very much bruce a well i i appreciate you letting me do something a little bit in my wheelhouse a distant be the hate journal economics of buying and selling board games and mostly used for games and so i i’ve got a couple of problems for for us to consider in you know perhaps we can’t even talk about how these really the us her what we might do it looked at it in a by phil situation cool all right so the first one has to do with buying it is making purchases doodo perceives scarcity so here’s a for instance for me a i i just noticed that at i pulled the trigger on a western legend sweat it was a sixty three dollars on amazon which given its market value it is it is an absolute steal a right now it’s hundred end a twenty four dollars on tv and you can’t buy it from a retailer a anywhere maybe you’re for their local game store the special or i’m not sure but what convinced me go ahead and make the purchase was i could it was running out of even though the price was good as far as game called inequality it was just more then i wanna just an amazing example i think people are gonna be familiar with you’ve been listening to this podcast is wingspan absolutely a so you you may remember that until recently wingspan what’s going for typically a hundred dollars and this is a game that i believe was introduced with the msrp of a sixty so so i don’t hundred dollars it had been printed ’em it’s hard to count two or three times about two and a half times of it that it had been printed but every time there were there were print run it with the shortland ten thousand copies typically and did they were all gone it’s gone before they even episodes yeah exactly and so they were being flipped on you but they’d had printed it can answer the price went down to eighty like which is still on still above and i wonder how many people are buying just because they see it before it’s gone yeah so that happened while i was at bg con actually so i besides were selling individual flea market i sold a couple of games they also brought to the bizarre which is another hour of selling and people are walking around were gonna touch on that here in a minute probably a but the table next to me had eight opened in used copy of wingspan on the table and they just slapped in eighty dollars on their which is twenty dollars above msrp free used the game anything new game that’s constantly coming out yeah so it was gone in like two minutes so right absolutely of course it was on and you know i said ted perceived scarcity wingspan is kind of an interesting one because it’s almost a market perception became reality the perception of scarcity it’s so low where people are buying another actual scarcity right of these games yeah absolutely so that wasn’t used game but it’s being printed like there’s a lot coming out in germany stag myers very transparent about that you could sign up for his noon newsletter on stone meyer games website he’s telling you when the new print runs are coming out and so listeners if you wanna get your hands on wingspan there’s more coming you don’t need to have to get it in these different ways because there’s more coming unless you absolutely want it i heard the highest price that’s gone for wingspan so far it’s been about a thousand dollars on each day a bruce you only reason i’m not ceaseless this podcast and making myself talk yeah there’s a now don’t get me wrong the game is phenomenal like you said it was pretty much a game of the convention the components are really cool comes with the dice tower comes of game trays hundred and seventy some odd different cards of different bird art it’s a phenomenally done but you there’s more common there’s more coming so it’s perceived scarcity you won’t and i think this even up till it’s a discussion of how do you judge the market and how do you judge relatives worse in the first place so so so you mentioned a component and beauty and goodness they are they’re they’re they raw quality just to the product that you’re getting in a wingspan but what’s most valuable about it and i think they would say this about most games that we love is the design of the full games including its mechanics including us are in in in greeley as a full package mhm so if you if you are familiar at all with what games are sold for in and you were trying to do kind of a relative causton allison wingspan if you say is it sixty dollars any really hard to argue that it’s not right but you get into eighty hundred it becomes much more difficult to make that determination mhm in yeah i completely agree really goes into all of the different aspects and really how is pulled together know what that equation is i don’t know some people have called the x factor some people have just said while factor or staying presence but you’re right as the number gets higher there’s you might question it a little bit more ’em i know for me hey can i tell that this is a a a passion project and so elisabeth hargraves the designer of wingspan she poured it all out for this game they rigged in germany sec meyer being jeremy segment really went through it with a fine tooth comb and made it a really great experience that’s really solid for the components for the rules and house things back together the quality of the lynn literal linen rule book is phenomenal but it’s not just the quality of the materials ’cause they look great but suck right but there are there are some beautiful games that are not my favorite exactly exactly and were not gonna get into those kind of things but this is not one of those things it’s when it has both it’s a knock it out of the park ’cause here’s the deal it could also not look the greatest leaving listening to the podcast like food chain magnates by spotter can be considered pretty ugly the components of the border these little tiles that are very very grid and there’s not much going on there but the art on the cards is really nice it’s like nineteen fifties diner ’cause that’s the theme of the game so it’s those old kind of motivational poster people um you see these songs like old means but the game is phenomenal and so that really outweighs the other stuff making it really stand out in my opinion but the scarcity of that to their cause us ninety dollar game oh my goodness i’ve been looking at my collection the other day and i was counting how many hundred dollar games do i have a and a listeners might my personal collection by board gaming standards would be small i think i believe counting expansions i have seventy so whole games it’s just over fifty and i don’t six games that the market declares the hundred dollars or more in that had me thinking about this next kind of a economical piece which is what about purchasing promos and expansions versus taking that same kind of a dollar amount an invite a whole game and i’ll give you some examples you’re the first one would be remember when i came into the hobby i was playing dominion so i loved getting the bg promo card thought it was the coolest thing and by the way we be life e g g and you probably should buy their things but but the five the promo part is five bucks an f i spend five bucks six times which i did i could’ve bought a whole nother game mhm and the same the same can be said for expansion these days really careful about the twenty dollar expansion is to put in our stations could be one whole game yeah and you got that first thing of what is it look like when you’re buying a promo right for a couple of bucks and then also just buying that expansion vs buying a whole nother game right and so let’s kind of break those that were first talk about the promo experience you bought a couple of versions of that same bg promo right for five dollars a piece as right yep i which you need several of them in there were different different promos is well a but that being said i have seen a little bit with that too and it just adds something else a field of this fire is not considering what balance issues mike this president right oh that that’s really intriguing bruce a now the the promo is austin just on just a little bit of ice to be original game but i do remember member getting some of those very first a bg promos fruit for power grid for instance an they they release through off want players were trying to get a in the bidding works power is mainly a big game in addition to a you green building a wall but yeah so i was just thinking about that so it’s like it’s one thing of looking into experience that it might create right so i really love supporting bg ’em i love supporting different content creators i know they work with a lot of different publishers get some promos made but hey that costa that promo is it worth me doing that instead of just getting a new game by put these from us together or is that one little thing gonna really make the game that much more balanced orange gonna throw it off because it could take something you like an make it adds something that might change the dynamic a little bit like you were talking about with power bread or enhance it and give more of what you like is a no no no that’s really astute bruce i think in in were talking about promos but the argument lands more for me for expansions okay and i’ll i’ll give you a bit of an example on my my favorite game dating back to when i was in the hobby the first time a is is really innovation which is eight eight have blow builder a it’s kind of a eight an area control without overboard and on my friends i typically play had had those clips for it’s a card game first expansion innovation was echoes of the past it introduced some really cool new dynamics is far as when you drop cards what you can do it in a we saw it it open the game up in the base game by itself is very strong with the past different experience so to really solid experiences but not a balanced ships a in an expansion if you will a change a we have these other three expansions as well a an end in our opinion of the varying degrees of what they do the game as far as enhance it or change it but but there is one okay go ahead and say it’s the last expansion released on the the artifacts in the sand and expansion which if i didn’t get it in the deluxe box a i i think i would’ve left it ’cause i think it ended up in a ditch a making so let’s just existing strategy work right anymore yeah end so something a little bit opposite that though is everything that’s been going on with her forming mars mars is they a card drafting afternoon game and then you’re building an engine in front of you to colonize antero form mars and so you’re trying to raise yok didn’t raise the heat etc and put down plants and oceans it’s really really fun a really cool the bills you’re engine in feel good with that my favorite saver card and the game is this one little pet scarred that’s like a little fluffy dog love dogs but they’ve had a bunch of expansions over the last couple of years because territory mars was nominated for the kenner spiel blew up on the world stage and then has sold a strong gains considered deserves it eight of what’s called the evergreens that’s gonna just keep producing and keep being sold ’cause that’s what it is but they’ve had be hell us in the leasing board added they’ve had prelude they’ve had colonies they just did kickstarter further next one a which also added finally a recess player boards but it kept adding layers and layers and layers and now people will not play it like my gamer friends they will not play without everything so it’s not like a piecemeal but that is because every expansion they’ve added to it has made the game that much tighter and better oh no that’s clay streamers i mean yeah good at what she from extensions right right i’ll give me more of the thing i like but also by introducing other flavors yes absolutely but it has me thinking of again you say okay we had the opposite thing happened a tear forming march kick so so my player group won’t play without everything now if that speed attitude or the mets game of of of your group listers i think this gets into to do you look at buying games piecemeal to attain this ultimate game or do you do you wanna buy a game that is really a whole game in a box which i think is why some people were upset the glue peyton hadn’t expansion right right and so here’s the thing though we didn’t start with everything we started by waiting into the water similar to the conversation we had earlier right and so they didn’t intentional choice by layering it in the way they did it with all actually new expansions it wasn’t original content that was cut out to make the base game that’s not how that works but here’s the struggle that i think we need a lean into it and it’s the same thing that people find when you go to a wine island the grocery store the same issue and that is i don’t know what’s gonna be in this bottle i don’t know what’s gonna be in this box how do i know if this is gonna be something meaningful from my group it it it certainly can and i mean you’re talking about something that experience so as you know you do something like listen to podcasts like this one you ever again review of someone you trust but but this has me thinking about another one of the items we we consider at which is a if you valuing games by their actual cost kind of over over there amount of play so on the board game user on red word he told me about an algorithm that he uses where when every purchase this game board expansion right the cover we were talking about whatever every purchase is a game is looking at how much it cost and how much clock time that that game is getting in the way he does it although it’s kind of arbitrary is is if a game does it does it before the ten dollar an hour mark he’s gonna end up selling kind of on the ground that well i you know i could have gone to a movie for that much yeah so you buy a twenty dollar expansion right and you play with four people once it’s five dollars is five dollar experience at the end you know what i bought this expansion let somebody else in the game group develop a good group of friends where it kinda rotates around who is adding content for the meaningful so it kinda balances out don’t have all that’d be on one person just gonna incurred that ’em but if you bring in a second time you know played it with eight and so now is only costs of two dollars and fifty cents a person that’s kind of how that works listeners oh excellent that’s that’s absolutely and and so for our what we were saying about hey is this gonna be a meaningful experience right when you’ve broken the costs down like that if it’s a if it’s meaningful to all of you as hey wonderful it’s just what what you want it and then if it’s not well you know that’s why they’re selling working play more yeah and so here’s the thing and just go to this and that was part of all the virtual flea markets stuff was hey these games are really good it’s it’s just not getting to the table for me it’s not getting to the table firm gaming group and dust i just wanna get it out there to other people and so i’m gonna bring up a point that you brought up down here and that is looking up like selling things so they’re gonna pivot a little bit selling things far less than there actually worth right i’m just so for me that was let’s just get this to other people so they can experience it but also release the burden of me selling it is kind of a win win if that makes sense on it does know bruce a said the we met a as as he told me something in an and that’s true end of i really wanna test ask him about that at the time i love to hear you traded more about it but i mean we can be playing so i bought a snow white johnstone lightning game a from bruce anti had it listed at one price which is far less than what it was worth from from a market perspective and then i asked him what he would he go lower evens that he was happy to do that which surprised me i like what you’re process absolutely so this game has had phenomenal review so it’s this no way gemstone mining game it has a lot of cool things going on actually sold at nyu in shrink so i hadn’t even played it myself my copy at least ’em in so where that came from from me is i’ve had a lot of games and my collection and we have my wife and i have really been going of is it bringing joy so we went the con mari method so if you haven’t watched it on netflix the tightening up just let the listeners know andy with that with that we said okay let’s tackle the game room and i looked at it and it said this game is sparking joy it’s i know it’s gonna be a fun experience and my wife wife loves and i both love disney things but at the end of the day i know that this could get more value with someone else and i actually didn’t have to purchase that game just gonna be fully transparent i won that game by competing at a trivia contest at board game convention last fall so myself and three of her friends and we made it seem are game or team nameless tigris and you’re mama instead of tigris and you’re a an we one sponsored by usa opoly and we all one we took top prize against some notable game designers i might add a and we had each got eight pile of games from usa opoly in that was included in that and so that being said it didn’t cost anything for me i also have this thing for really just this great experience i gotta have the trivia in i just want it to go to a good home that’s where all that came in his first of all i think rats you’re on your big win thank you a notable game designers that that shall not be named they will not name some games they have made in this podcast today yeah well and i thought about a our are meeting bruce and you know you’re you’re talking about wanting the games to to go to good homes in a very much skip this stealing of authenticity from you i told you my intent to give that game to to my son her for his next next birthday end because they know what you think about this hobby and the people who play it like i know it matters to you that’s gonna sparked joy in in my household so really grateful for that in warm i heart listeners is gonna say like hey do you wanna talk about that game they bought off of me in germany is actually like no i’m actually holding it for a couple of months the give is like a present and so like that warm extra hartselle like not only not only did i know is going to good place but then of like like the cream of the crop so like good people germany germany is good people thinking yeah for well that’s that’s kind of you’re bruce and and you know who while we were being nice to each other a maybe we can talk about some other yes behavioral economics because i i i’ll admit to you and i’ve told you this before that that i am not opposed to making a profit when it’s only a matter of fact i i i read wants to do that so for instance and if we’re at the the the board game peak bizarre which isn’t like the virtual flea market this is like you show up and you and you have a table and you you put her games on display in new price them and generally speaking you you you handle with people about about what they’re gonna get no on knowing what i know about human behavior in purchasing decisions i i know that a people ’em sellers who don’t have the benefit of checking the market like amazon prime or each day or the geek market or gonna have to rely on ristic’s or rule system to make their decision on whether they byron on and those things kind of go like this a something in a little box is probably worth five bucks something in a medium size box is probably ten fifteen something in a large box is probably thirty or maybe more if it’s a really well known game but if it’s a really well known game you don’t really have to use a rule of thumb so it doesn’t apply in quite the same way if an the person thinks probably thinks hey i want the best deal that that i can get on that and i could probably get a best deal if if i asked you have a little bit and so you know frankly as you might expect numbers these are sometimes the seller like i got taken an end let something go for for a less then i then i really wanted to but austin i was able to price something hired that i was i was expected get ’em for it and ’em thinking that okay that perhaps when they handle all get justice what i’m looking for what i think actual relative market is here i sometimes i was really kind of taken aback like ooh you wanna stay that much of this game because they price it that way like while okay yeah that’s the thing in definitely like i told you i was selling games where i’ve also done any other side and we’ve been buying games of that so typically people will sometimes price it up a little bit the smart ones and then when you’re going around about halfway through they might take a couple of dollars off and then it gets closer very indicative take a couple of dollars off but it’s a negotiation but that really plays into another thing that i have read about out and maybe you can speak to this but that is fans on pricing that that is absolutely phantom freising versus you know i’ll i’ll let you correct me actually but but i’m thinking about dd idea where the price is actually based on the relative market quality of the game or even deep actual experience the quality of the game of the price is based on appearance the setting in which is it’s a it’s being sold any expectation that the sticker price itself is basically false threats is if you’d like when you go to buy a car you can imagine that you’re spending base in the kind of cardi by five hundred it perhaps even three thousand dollars left in the secret service yes and so that’s exactly what it is but it can go absolutely for the board games are and so the phantom pricing in a nutshell is if i am selling you something an i didn’t list price and you meanwhile how much do you want for it i could say well let’s say the games worth fifty i could say you know this really should go for eighty but i’m willing to go seventy i can’t hear the eighty you’ve heard eighty and so that is stuck in so any leverage i get from their kind of sways it to my favor now you can also try opposite where if i have a game listed at the bizarre and there’s a sticker price it’s on it i could say you know i really really only wanna go about twentyfour that game that’s fifty meanwhile i’m comfortable spending forty but you don’t know that but you heard me say twenty and so it’s gonna kind of leverage things in one way or the other now it’s really hard on tour yeah i i do know this but i know under under another name i’ve heard this one called a door in the face that’s what it’s like you hit somebody so hard that when they back off you’re like oh okay i’ll just created says no no no no by the way a while they were talking about hey hey perhaps i’m a good person even though and i make a profit i i do not condoning you don’t want anybody out there to actually be deceptive and if you think that would that would write a wrong thing it is you say you know what am i willing to pay for it and and you’re treacherous twenty but the person says well you take eighteen if you do that that’s a fully different things then again that’s actually worth fifties were dating right exactly exactly so this is the community were better were all like let’s have the tide rise all of the ships ’em but yes this is i think this is a real real thing and it’s it’s interesting to watch it happen ’cause it totally does totally does now i told to ’em about flipping games inside of the convention and i and i didn’t do that i’ll give you i’ll give you an example of an end why my conscience with okay with that but still pretty judge me if you’d like at a at the bizarre i i picked up a copy of space could as a used copy for a pretend dollars that was really excited to play and i still haven’t unfortunately but i i walk around the bizarre and i saw that another copy with their twentyfive and i thought will home the market the market just changed yoga is no longer ten dollars the workers at twentyfive so if i’m if i resell it for twenty which which is in fact what i did why why my conscience is okay with that is if i left there what states could as ’cause nobody bought it has got a great game for ten bucks right and so the here’s the thing that’s just doing your homework on what the market is willing to bear a if that makes sense in so it’s not that i looked did all the amazon prices and this one person was trying to get this ridiculous price on either way or something like that but if that is what’s being shown in multiple outlets that’s completely fair and i actually did that whip hero quest my first time going to be g g i bought hero questioned the bizarre and a there is no price listed on it or anything and this is just it’s like really coming back and i know the as a huge perceived value right but people were still able to find it for like five bucks at i sold it so many times right but here’s the thing i i i didn’t want to have to go through all of that and so this is also a perceived win right a perceived flip i just flat out offered him what i thought was fair based on what the market was it was significantly higher than that but not too high where’s it’s a fair point and we didn’t even need to haggle is just like no that’s just a fair offer and so i think if you’re really also know the market you can go into these things and just give a fair offer and most people are willing to go with that i think there there is something about when you’re when you’re inside the board gaming community i think that happens more often than not you’re talking about a bizarre eve even at a bg con it’s you’re you’re looking at people who have have done less of that homework and have less understanding of of of relative market costs but when were inside are are are own community i generally think people are just not trying to each other oh yeah good this is going back to summer camp were gonna see him again but it’s cool ’cause you don’t really have access to really look stuff up you’re in this confined space it’s only so long so it’s really fun experience if you can go out and experience that a but just for the sake of time what would be another one another topic within this buying and selling but you think our listeners really hear about well i wanna ask know about about one more a i i don’t even know if it’s fighter sound like it’s more like or like not so sure like is there life or their games you keep just because of emotional attachment not because they’re monetarily literally valuable ’cause you play the game but you just you just won’t ever yeah there are ’em so that’s your quest game i know i’m never getting rid of it my wife actually just bought me a set of easels from michael’s and and have it on display in my game room and some other games i have the games that i played growing up now do i austin plays her chico risk a risk no i don’t but i have these two games they were the barnes and noble wooden box additions with all wouldn’t component so looks like a box a game not a game it looks like a book on the shelf those games on half of the rest of my life the the version of backgammon that my mom bought me ’cause we grew up playing backgammon together i’ll always have that i do have some really cool old versions of monopoly to now do i play monopoly often no also because my wife says i’m a different person when i play that game that’s a whole nother conversation that not all right now but i do have those games i know i’m never gonna sell in for another game that’s a more recent example like star wars rebellion on that game i’ve gotten so much play out of it but i’ve made so many memories along the way as well that i know i’m gonna hang onto that game i’ve also blended out like crazy with acrylics dandies in all sorts of other stuff that game means a lot to me both emotionally as well as just really good thing to look at and and just remember some of those experiences thanks bruce it’s it’s enriching to hear your story of how how you real life is is it instantly reflected in your game collection it is you know i have have some of those two but but but really just just share one in the gym and in ’em so when i was growing up life and my uncle favorite game which rail baron which is oh somebody sort of rail i have real burned yes absolutely which i was going over the lifter case yeah yeah let them know what it is is they railroad game from nineteen seventy seventy all adeline hill a style and as i say my my uncle sabres game well he did it like the play so much with with children who were growing up so right a pacifist getting old enough that uncle ridgewood played rail there well i i would the oldest of the cousin there were like nine of us and my brother with the youngest and every time he would get a little bit older kind of the the threshold for entered a play real download rise on a little bit in here’s where it saddens will go ahead and disclaimer that my father tried to track the game down for four years and he actually wrapped it up who’s gonna give it to my brother on for christmas and and then my brother he ended up dying a six days before christmas and things down and a half years i’m so sorry for the loss a knicks fan i i you know we we know each other so that means yeah yeah no that that’s not easy in my condolences to you and your family no matter how long time it’s not gonna be there maddow so you were able to track down a copy and so well and so i got my brothers coffee my dad right oh i got i got is present to an end so he did being inside of the topic that were doing a here’s this game that is probably valued about a hundred and forty dollars something like that and have a hang on to be two hundred but i’m never gonna and that is just sell it right ’cause you know how i acquired right absolutely and that’s no one could explain that like if someone who’s just to see that box they would have no idea right but if you see that it has a completely different meaning and i think that’s also something that’s just something good for us to remember and that is just ’cause we see a game on the table does not mean that the same opinion about that game is gonna be had by other people as well as these experiences that come along with it so when somebody is like telling you about a game or something like that they might have some deep seated reasons for liking the game as well in just giving them that grace and giving them the respect in all of this to i think is a good thing that we can all remember from time to time thanks for letting me share that bruce without without without warning you that that that i was gonna do that on but a advertising you’re not on a lot of every dollar lottery talking about this and thank you for being able to talk about that that really means a lot ’em but i know there’s a lot of other topics that a lot of other behavioral economics that we didn’t get to but in all of this water just some ideas or tips just declined a closed this out but you think listeners and gamers should just know as they’re approaching these different topics based on your background short well if you’re if you’re buying or selling a understanding the market is really her best friend in so if you’ve going on amazon andy bay at ended a geek market you’re gonna have more knowledge probably than anybody else on that that you’re involved in an remember that you’re enemy is is relying on she ristic’s or you’re you’re fat thinking or you’re in tuition an that you’re friend is doing you’re slow thinking so if you’re convinced that you were going to buy a game then if you can at all health it you want to wait a few days to to make that purchase to make sure that you continue to want it to you that on a in if you’re wanting to a sell a game then released speed is your friend in the more you can you can have other people rely on the same ristic’s you don’t want to yeah and i’ll throw in something else it actually helped me navigate it as well and that is if you know you’re going into that kind of environment we’re gonna have these pressures and you’re gonna have these impulse triggers maybe have a friend with you walk around with you and kind of be you’re real rationale or if they need the whole money that can be a thing to but the other thing is to make yourself a list make yourself the list of the games you’re looking like if i find these things this is what i’m reasonably willing to spend a kind of set those capacities so these before you even enter the space because you know you’re gonna be on the lookout for games and if there’s some of that you’ve always wanted the have make that list ’cause i guarantee you might see it at least one of them and that happened for me the first time i walked in that space immediately saw here a classroom across the room and then i had to quickly do the mental gymnastics to figure out what is a reasonable price just say right now i was sweating and it was all the things but but this is just really really helpful information for the listeners but also helps says evaluate other things as well in life i think at this kind of ubiquitous not just the gaming but other things in life and that is things that have meaning for you price might not be indicative of what that meeting is behind it also some of us may have more access and things like that and maybe you don’t have to think is hard about how much the game’s going for but also relies on both ends that somebody else might end that both of those things are not wrong but they’re just they’re different experiences and this is the community about coming together no matter who we are things like that and i talked about this in the last episode but i just love the fact mississippi rodney smith ’em in that is that games how often in any other situation in life can we come together learn something together but operated by the same rules set and so by having some of this knowledge you have the same rule set as a person who selling or the person who’s buying anta kind of leverage that fur better community over also take all this but using it for good jeremy i work tober pretty much up on time most curious do you have any closing thoughts further listeners or other things you just like the sure there is one more thing so on board game geek my user name is bone for life and i know that sounds weird and i get a lot of questions about it and some people think that even sounds kind of vulgar and here’s what it means thank you witness when i was in high school i was on the line and the drovers we called herself the phones and a i in junior high i i watched the world championship wrestling and then the n w obits around back in those days and they always said that they were for life and they would spell it like the number for an l y s so i was bonus loan for life a windy internet came around a as at twenty years later it’s it’s kind of different but i’m still alive yeah nbd does this thing you can’t edit you’re out you’re user name at all if it’s any consolation elation my first a first email account with t g i f something something something in so i was there with you it’s just luckily mine that’s been able to fade but bg that thing is locked in right but thank you for giving being the information listeners if you listen to the last episode you know i had some trepidation saying of the thank you jeremy for joining us i think this is very useful information listeners i hope you enjoyed this a just wanna just say thank you again germany for for not only this but also just being a great person in hobby in everything that you have also done to help this hobby grow in your experiences and sharing that today but then also everything you and family have done for this country so thank you again for that hey thank uber’s thanks for offer what you do for for the hobby in a you you know people thinking in my family for are service and then you just did but but we thank you for your service to this community in in in gonna to grilling did a positive impact for thank you so much jeremy end so with that we’re gonna wrap up this episode listeners hope you enjoyed this end germany i can’t wait to see you at another convention soon so good luck with everything and i’ll see you soon listeners i don’t know about you but i just thought that was a great conversation the germany and i just got the have and i just wanna say thank you again germany after being on the show today and also i’m just so thankful we’ve been able the connectors it’s amazing holiday listeners this is gonna be the wrap up of everything so again my name is bruce brown and you can find me on board game as bruce brown thank you so much for listening the board game impact we hope that learning about what experiences were having a are also making a positive impact on you see if you could make an informed informed decision for you and your gaming and you can learn more about the show by going the board game impact dot com we have a topic discussed emails a board game impact at g mail dot com you can follow us on instagram and facebook which are both board game impact and again if you know about are phenomenal patriotic and the people that really make this thing happen in support us support the show going over to patriot dot com slash board game impact and check that out there and check out how you can support the show also if you take a minute and do you rate the show in whatever appier enjoying thank you for those of you who have done that it’s been so so helpful to hear directly from you and listeners would be great to hear from you as well and then just let somebody else know who else is also a gamer or learning new games about the podcast we found that those who are learning about new games is also extremely helpful for have you could just let somebody know about the podcast and really help but all that being said really the most important thing is that we now go after this episode and go have fun have a great rest of your day but also go make a positive impact on the world