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In this episode Josh brought up a discussion topic that was the focus of the entire show, how do we go about “teaching and learning games?” Given our backgrounds in education we easily could have kept talking about this but had to cut ourselves off but it was a lot of fun to have this personal conversation in an effort of sharing our perspectives and experiences. In addition, we also dive into game design choices such as intro games, recommended first plays, and campaign/legacy systems as a method of the game trying to be the teacher.
We hope that you enjoy this episode, and more importantly find it helpful to you and your game group.
As Josh mentioned several times, we would love to hear from you about what you have seen that has worked well or not so well. Please email those suggestions to us at Boardgameimpact@gmail.com.
To learn more about Board Game Impact you can:
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Audio Transcription (Generated by AI)
00:00:09 – 00:05:02
And this episode of board game impact. We’re going to be talking about teaching and learning games and some strategies that ends a stay tuned. How do you welcome to the latest episode of board game impact. My name is bruce. And i’m always joined by. This is josh and today. we’re gonna be talking about teaching and learning games. But if you haven’t heard if you haven’t listened to us before please make sure to hit that. Subscribe button so you can get all the latest episodes because we are taking our educational lenses working on my phd. And josh and i both work and higher education and so we take those lenses and we apply them to the gaming situations that were having to break them down for your group benefit and so two days probably one of the most important ones there because we’re literally talking about teaching and learning. It’s a little on the nose with this little on the nose with this one like literally. I was teaching my class earlier today. So this is really about like some strategies and things like that. But i’ll let josh get into that in a second but that is who we are. We also do some youtube videos occasionally. But we’re very excited to be talking to you about this. So make sure to subscribe and then also go on over to facebook and instagram and follow us there. So just this was your brainchild which is interesting because we both work in education in find opposite fifty four for us to do this so walk us through kind of where this game from. Yes so this is a topic that i’ve been very interested in bringing to the show for quite a while now and where this really started for me is. I have traveled a lot over the past five ten years of my life. I’ve moved around for different jobs and different things like that and board games have always been my home whenever i find a new home. Is you know the first thing i do is i find. Where’s where do people meet up to play board games in this new town that i’m living in and so it’s how i introduce myself to people and how i meet people. I have found in the process of doing that. That i as i find new groups and new individuals that i’m learning a lot of new games that i hadn’t heard of from other people but i’m also bringing a lot of two groups that have not had those games before and so i’m doing a lot of teaching And a lot of learning. And so i have realized and found and discovered over time some techniques and ways that i have modified the way that i teach games too i think improve my teaching methodology for different games. I found things work. I found things that don’t work. And and so. I kind of wanted to bring this topic to the show. And you know. Bruce and i. We’ve we’ve talked a little bit. About how a very particular game that we’re going to mention a little bit later on has a really great teaching mechanism built into the rule book. And that really kind of prompted me to say you know bruce we we’ve been talking back and forth about this game for a while. I think we both want to do a deep dive into it. I’m i’m very much looking forward to that. But i really enjoyed this teaching mechanism and as we were kind of brainstorm like i i love this topic. I really wanna talk about it. I think it’s not only a great conversation for us to have but it is a great conversation to bring out of an episode and to open up to the community to the listeners to everyone who is engaging in our content to continue the conversation past the release of this episode to say what are you doing. What are you learning. How do you see this interacting with your gang group or what works for your game group. And so we can continue to build and expand the knowledge base of not only our selves but the community as a whole. I completely agree with that. And i’ve actually love for people to post over on the facebook. Like hey this work for all for my game group when we’re in this setting I think setting can be important for learning but the other factor to is some games might require different teaching. And we’ll get into that in a minute a little bit more.
00:05:02 – 00:10:17
But if there’s any tips or tricks that you’ve come across for certain games or gaming experiences that might be super helpful so definitely posted over on the facebook but before we get into all this got to give a caveat josh and that is our context right and so for this conversation. Josh mentioned about moving around. And which yes just you have been moving around a lot lately. And what’s interesting is. I’ve been planted lately for the last five years and before that i mean i’m moved all over the place and so it’s kinda interesting you and i’ve kind of flip flop there. But we’re specifically talking about adults and so please know that for this conversation we’re not really leaning into. This is how i would introduce this game to my niece. I have three nieces and so do know that this is like how would i introduce this at like a game night or to a group of potential new friends or amita things like that with other fellow adults. Right josh absolutely absolutely and i we could do a whole other episode on teaching children and the differences between teaching the children. And right i. I took an entire graduate school class on the difference between teaching children versus teaching to adults And so there are a lot of differences at play there Not only in the way that you’re in but also the the type of game that you’re teaching. Yes and certainly you know i’m going my preference of gaming is i enjoy bigger meteor heavier games. That require you know. Dozens of pages. We’ll books and you our long youtube videos and different things like that. So so my. My style of teaching may be very different. And you’re right based off of the game that i’m working with based off of the group that i’m working with. I found things that work really well for some groups and i take those two other groups than they fall flat and so a lot of context i think in in all forms of education. Context is incredibly important and teaching aboard. Game is no different. Yeah and so for this conversation We’ve had a couple things structured out so we’ve got Really these more broad strokes of approach to the teach because that’s a phrase of the last couple of years now we’ve also got some different types of games and some things that go well in that things that might not go well and just to clarify but then also towards the end we’re going to go into specifically how is our approach to teaching different games or learning games for ourselves because we are also an adult consuming content to then learn it so we can play the thing with a solo game or even preparing for teach and we’ll get into that partner second but one thing i do want to just go over. This is from my of my phd work in human resource development. And so i took a whole class in adult. Learning that other kind of class was talking about too but one of the things of adult learning is this thing called andrology. Which a lot of people are more familiar with pedagogy Teaching of children and so go kind of takes over in that essentially sixteen to twenty time line depending on person in cognitive development but really goes then for lifespan. So can go all the way up and so knowles in one thousand nine hundred kind of came up with these six principles of adult learning. I’m not gonna take a lot of time with this crash. Course through these six principles are i is need to know so the willingness to learn something is connected to the task. They’re wanting to learn more about all the good thing for us is. They’re coming to a game night. So hopefully the people at the table already have that cultivation of a need to know ’cause they’re already there and hopefully care about it but having maybe that conversation of hey. We want to focus in here. Because i want you to have the best night you can self concept so we make our own decisions about learning so they can choose to be like nah but how invested they are is a choice to them and so. Here’s the rub with all of this. You could be the best teacher you can do everything in your power but sometimes at the end of the day like you can’t force them to drink the water if that makes sense so do know that there was limitations to this and there’s a choice in this but you can try and set the stage with that. The third thing is prior experience. So no one’s a blank canvas so people who have more experience and learning games have probably more of a repertoire to make it easier to learn games because it may have experienced before if they have a blank canvas. they haven’t really been in the space. How can you apply. Prior principals readiness to learn knowing material is going to be relevant and helpful to them and signaling benefits can help them make them realize what information is useful so for dulcet may be really important to connect the things that are going on to how that’s going to benefit them right and so preparing them to that orientation to learning is the fifth principle and adults are really problem.
00:10:17 – 00:15:05
Centered where honestly for pedagogy. It’s really more like acting future. Like broad strokes but it’s a solve a problem so really we want to be immersed in. How do we help solve that problem. What problem is there to solve. And lastly motivations we are intrinsically motivated as adults to learn but external drivers can help us. So that’s where setting up that night for success if you’re having a game night but we cannot make adults learn but we can help them determine what they want to achieve in the learning and so with that we all might not get the same end result right on the test but some some of us. If we’re able to get fifty percent that’s fifty percent more than we had coming in and so understanding that motivation we might get two different end goals but that doesn’t mean that any of us are any different We’re unique and we’re going to approach things uniquely and so that’s the thing about adults we’re going to be unique to your table strength. Cultivate things for the to bring out the best. Just put that out there. So josh i just kind of cross through that. so why. don’t you kick us off with the first thing. Sure sure so. I think this is really good. Because they’re a couple of things that as we go through some of those knowles kind of concepts of adult learning There there are. I think some really strong ties to why this has become a conversation for me. I i used to teach games the way that i learned games and and i found that that does not work. Not everyone is you not. Everyone is me. But at the same time i have found that there are very specific reasons for that. So i m maybe a little bit of unique bird here. I really love game mechanics. And so i have always and this is something that that when i look to how i learned games which i’ll mention here in a moment i i tend to focus on the mechanics of the game and the goal matters less to me as we just discussed step. Our number five in knowles six concepts of andrew coaching is orientation learning. tells us that as adults most adults are problem centered and so i have one of the first things that i learned very early on as i became more of a teacher of games right as i went from being the guy showing up to game night with maybe one or two games in my collection and i was still learning a lot of new games and becoming immersed in the hobby. And moving into that transitional period into becoming. You know i have a podcast about gaming. I have a nonprofit about gaming. I have i am on kickstarter every other day and i’m constantly buying new games and consuming new content and so i have become one of the members of my game group pretty much everywhere that i live. Who is buying and getting new games. The table and so. I have transitioned from the learner to the teacher and early on. I would often set out with this concept of i’m going to teach the mechanics and then tied theme in this very euro of you. Yes but every time that i would do that and people would interrupt the teach right because the first thing i was saying okay. So here’s here’s what we’re doing right here are the mechanics. Here’s what here’s what you’re going to be doing. You’re to be taking your maples and you’re going to be placing them out here and we’re going to be taking these different actions. Whatever immediately before. I could even get into my teach of the game. Someone would inevitably interrupt me to say sorry. What are we trying to do here. What is the goal. What is might end. What is the end point and to me the way that this works in my brain is i’ll get to the end when i get there But but i have learned that that in trying to introduce other adults two games.
00:15:06 – 00:20:01
It really has to start in most almost every game in my mind This has become the dominant theme for me. Is that you must start with. Here’s the theme. Here’s who you so. You are traitors in the mediterranean. And you are trying to develop your economic empire and you’re going to do that by taking these steps and as you do so you’re going to earn victory points and the person with the most victory points at the end of the game wins right. That is a very different thing than saying. Okay you’re going to be moving your ships around this horde and you’re going to be trading and interacting with people And you’re going to be trying to develop your network and this is what this is and this is what this is and this is what this is. Yeah yeah so it is a very different style and so this is something that i really had to make a very dramatic shift in the way that i learned games versus the way that i teach games so you created the you gave a brief thing of the setting then. He told them where they’re trying to go. And then you’re rounding it into now. Let me show you how you get there exactly. So that that. I think is is number one in one of the things like first lessons that i learned in this process of becoming a teacher of of games. And someone who i actually i find great fulfillment and great enjoyment of introducing new games to new people and providing that teach. And so i i will. Now i have gone from sitting down and setting up a game. And as i’m setting up i’m talking to people about different things and i. I have completely changed the way that i teach games now. I generally don’t start talking until the game is completely set up in front of the people And we’ve talked about this in. The past is in in terms of cultivating a great gaming experience. I think is really important if you’re hosting a game night and you know what game you’re going to be playing. Have it set up and ready to go so that whenever players sit down at the table. They’re looking at everything Because it does it helps. I find with with them. Learning to focus their attention rather than trying to process. Everything is in front of them and set it up at the same time. You’re focusing exactly. So i generally don’t start teaching until the game is completely set up I i start with a general overview of what you’re going to be doing throughout the game And then i’ll get into the mechanics of how you’re going to achieve that in goal But the reason why it’s so important for me to have it set up is. I am very physical learner And this is something that kind of getting into a little bit of how i learned games. I i am personally not someone who can sit down and watch what watch rodney smith play a game. Oh i could totally watch him play. Watch him play games but yet do i learn anything sometimes exactly well and so yes. You’re right i could. I can sit down and watch people play a game. And i get the general concepts and what you’re supposed to be doing and i generally get a feel for as this game that i’m going to enjoy versus a game that i’m not going to enjoy but until i have the game materials in front of me and i can pick up the measles and i can look at them and i can see on the board. Okay here’s where. I’m moving it. The tactile piece to it is so important to the way that i learn a game that i really need to be sitting down in front of it and see it all laid out in front of me in that way In order for me to really process what is happening. Yeah so so. With some of that. Bruce i guess what are your kind of. Do you have a way that you learn games. Do you have a way that you teach games. I do have several things And i just want to comment. Who’s gonna pull this out in a little bit in. This episode is now so actually asked on the board game revolution community facebook page. I was like what games are aspects of games or resources to use to help teach and learn. I’m not gonna lie. I did have people just comment of like i do this. Thing called reading the rule book right and so A is one break that down of like no one else at the table has access to said roebuck right.
00:20:01 – 00:25:02
So you can’t pass it around four of them so you can educate an advance and say. Hey this is what we’re gonna play. Can you please read up on it whether that works or not. That’s another conversation. But then had a becky commented saying that her husband used to do nothing more than talk at them and read them the entire rule book. I’ve done that early early on. I used to do that and work our area. I will own up and acknowledge that and how that work no one ever knew how what what they were doing or or how to play the game or how to be successful in the game. And i think that’s that’s something that’s really important here is not only like do you understand the mechanics but do you understand how those mechanic work together to make you successful right games. This thing called bloom’s taxonomy of knowledge right and so the lowest levels like a pyramid the lowest level. The most basic thing is knowledge retention. Chur i can tell you what the things are. But that doesn’t mean i can comprehend it right. Think of it like test. Somebody cramps ford. They know the answer but that doesn’t mean they make sense of it so she commented that she took over game night by the way and then i would set out to set up the game. Sorry reading a statement so has ice statements. Becky set up the game. And then we would play in tallaght teach everybody the basics and fundamentally she said that like everybody would like almost fall asleep in the past where now they’re like super engaged and they’re getting into the action faster so what i like to do. Josh and i appreciate becky and other for sharing plots more things from that post and minute would. I really like to do as much as possible. Figure out what we’re playing in advance so part of being adult is i think is having that. Ddr the define the relationship and being like hey. Here’s the games i have. What would y’all be interested in. So we have a discord janelle for my meet up and anybody can post in there and the tuesday gaming group of like. Hey what are y’all wanting to play over on board game arena and stuff because hey hashtag were still at home and people can learn the rules and so personally for me in learning johson and talk about the other side. What i personally like to do is when i show up to a game i want to feel i want to have everybody else. Have fun right. And i don’t want to be the detractors of that fun and so for me i want to feel that i have the competence to be successful. Not win like actually really. Don’t care about that. But i want to have the competence to be playing in a way where i am not a hindrance to others and able to also be a good steward and so for me if i know. Hey here that people are interested in. I go on i do watch like the rodney swiss. Rodney’s watch it played videos We’re getting more into play for. Washington played in a minute but i also consume things like gaming rules with paul grogan or heavy cardboard and i will watch the teach i will watch people playing. It also probably read the entire rulebook and then i’ll probably also read other things to help clarify. I invest a pretty significant energy into trying to set that experience up for success that mostly the players are on the table. Never know i did and again. I don’t try and win. But i’d want to feel like i can contribute and given my research background and stuff for me. I want to dig into it and i want to understand. I want to get to that higher order thinking because sometimes in a game just gets turned down on the table and if it is like this is this. This is this. This is this. I have a hard time in that immediate moment of putting those two things together. I am more of a. Let’s take in multiple sources and less marinate on it. And then it clicks for me. So when i’m teaching a game as much as possible. I try to educate the players as much as i can and try to in advance and so. Hey here’s some things. Here’s some helpful resources for that. But i’m also relying on that little bit of the Their like their readiness and their orientation and motivation of they’re coming here with an intent. And i want to uphold that but i also know. That’s not the case for everybody so i try to have the game set up as much as i can whenever possible. Obviously a meet up at a pub and stuff. It’s difficult but i’ll try and set it up as much as i can. Try and limit my conversation. And like you said and then i’ll try and usually kinda use the same methodology that you talked about to be honest but the other thing about it is really. When i’m teaching a game. I am not really playing the game.
00:25:03 – 00:30:14
And i think that is a fundamental difference. I think i did well when teaching a game when they kicked my tail at it and so in. This might be a lot on me. But it’s. I’m trying to do this because i’m trying to be a host hosting a party hosting friends i i am trying to keep up with what actions they are taking or some of those kind of things because sometimes that can be indicative of are they not taking certain actions because they don’t yet know should be not should be but could or knowing what those things are clicking and so as things are going. I’m trying also spoon out more information as things become relevant. So that way. We’re working on the short term towards short-term tactic tactics long-term strategy. I know that’s a pretty big burden on the teacher. But like that’s being a teacher as well and this is again. I think something where for me. At least the context comes yes a lot. Yes because if i’m sitting down playing with my game group my game group on average i can look around the table and know that every person they’re probably plays four to five games a week to That’s just the nature of my game group. Is we play a lot of games and so in those situations. I’m going to be playing to win. Like or going to be flying to do as well as i possibly can. I am teaching it right. Of course yeah. I’m not trying to do bad by the way. I don’t really care if i win. And i mean that’s a personal thing for me is i’m playing against the players the Especially a game. That i’ve played before. Never i’m never trying to beat the players at the table. I’m trying to beat myself. Yes And do better than i did before or do something different than i did before and see how that works. That’s just the way that my brain works. But i know that’s not how everyone’s brain works. What i mean to say is when i when i teach two players who play a lot right when we talk about prior experience prior experience is huge. If i know that this person has played a million worker placement games. And i’m teaching them a worker placement game. I’m not going to be paying a whole lot of attention to their turns throughout the game. Sure knowing your audience. If i’m sitting down with my wife’s co workers who have maybe played kettani a few times and have maybe played ticket to ride a few times but beyond that are relatively new to board games. Those folks i am like you. You’re one hundred percent correct. I am more paying attention. Jim fair kerns than i am to my own. Sorry didn’t clarify that. But yes really wanna playing with. Somebody who i know doesn’t have as much experience. Yeah that context. I think is really key in those situations because you’re absolutely right like i want especially someone who’s new to games if you’ve played a million games. You’re going to pick out the things that you like about this game. You’re going to pick out the things you don’t like about this game you don’t need me to serve it up on a platter for you. At least that’s my opinion breath. I if you’ve never played a heavy strategy board game before. I really want you. I want to bring you into this. I want you to see what it is that i see about this hobby and so i am. I’m very focused on okay. So you’re doing this action. And i understand why you’re doing this action but have you considered you know over here. Do you see this and how you if you did this instead. It would benefit you in the long term. And so that’s something that you’re you’re one hundred percent right. I do think that that is really key. Especially when you’re teaching to lower experience players. Yeah and so. Here’s the thing with that. That actually i talked about all the time when i’m talking to my students and that is one of the things i do because i acknowledge if you were to come over and play games on my house like we’ve aboard game room and if you’re not really heavy gaming or gaming yet yet we’re going to get you there. Hopefully that could be intimidating already and so when we’re playing a game if there’s a card comes up let’s say we’re playing clank or imperium and there’s that card row cards pretty cool. I’ll probably react a little bit more but also probably will try and have myself not take it because i would love for them to have the discovery of the synergies and stuff that can come with the player or stuff so sometimes i will make a sub optimal move so that way a new player can have an enhanced amount of discovery.
00:30:14 – 00:35:00
Because i think that is going to light up different centers of their brain. They’re probably going to have a lot more fun. They’re gonna feel clever in a good way. Yes that might be a little manipulative. And i’m trying to manipulate it. So they have a freaking awesome night so bear with me on that so also put that out there. yeah i. i don’t know that i will necessarily go that far. I don’t know that. I would necessarily give myself as sub optimal move but i definitely would take the step of pointing out so the game. That often comes to mind because it has become my game to bring non gamers in my. It is my gateway game. That i introduced. I is wingspan o. Okay it’s sewers. Birds birds it. It’s super simple to learn mechanics wise. It is incredibly deep when you start to look at the interplay in the interactions between your birds are doing and it’s a nice pleasant theme that most people can get behind. There’s a reason why is one of the best selling board games of the past. You know however many years. And so i may. I may not pass up a bird. That is out there. That i really want but i may point out to someone. Hey you have this bird and your forest and this bird really center and syncs up really well with that. I it would be a. I think it’d be really smart if you pick that. Like not telling them what to do but just saying like hey. Here’s the synergy. Here’s how because a lot of people even if you have played games like to ride catan or dominion even You engine building is a whole different beast. One one makes three instead of two. Yeah exactly and so when you start to like. I think it is very very helpful to show people those things because again. You’re right when you have that really awesome. Turn where you run your engine and you score a boatload points it feels good and when you feel good playing a game you’re more likely to come back and play play it again or play a new game so one thing i did want to kind of. We’ve we’ve hit on in a little bit. But i didn’t wanna talk about it. Is this idea of rule. Books versus video versus is a person teaching the game And kind of the learning game or a playthrough yeah Go ahead so. This is something that that. I’ve actually come into contact with moore since moving to colorado and becoming a part of this game group that i’m part of now is one of the ways that we curate. The gaming experience for everyone is we owe at least one of the nights that we get together to play games as we have a white board and everyone puts up the games that they want to play and we draw two games on wednesday knowing that. We’re going to play on friday. That’s cool. It’s really really helpful and one of the cool things that we have done is we will post a learnt a video someone if we have a a watch it played or You know one of the you know heart heavy cardboard or one of the other guys. Who’s done a playthrough or or a rules. Explanation will post that into the group along with the be playing. That’s amazing The challenge for me. Like i said is i can watch those videos. But if i don’t have it set up in front of me. I really don’t retain a lot of that information. So i’m more like you bruce even if it’s if it’s a game that i don’t know but i don’t own it i’m going to watch the video but i’m also going to read the rule book but it’s really not until i sit down and actually start playing the game that i really start to comprehend how things work thus far And so i will go in with the knowledge that i’m probably not going to do super great at this game because it’s really only gonna be about halfway through that game that i learn it. So josh of question on that deep besides watching like a watch played. Do you ever watch play.
00:35:00 – 00:40:02
Thor’s i do. And i do find playthrough more beneficial so i’ll kind of buzz market. Another talked about some other guys. I found john plays games. Yeah to be very very helpful for that exact reason because he doesn’t just teach you the rules of the game. He also he does that while playing through and taking turns ask a person would take turns in their setup so that you start to see some of the strategy and tactic in the interplay between the mechanics. Come to life a little bit more but still even with that. I struggle with a with a good example that we just played maracaibo last weekend. Era phenomenal game. I am in love. Alexander fister does amazing things and this is just rashes that sweet spot for me in so many ways Really really want to get back to the table now but as we were doing this guy boza game that i own But i didn’t go through my normal learning process for it okay instead. I watched the john plays okay. I did read the rule book beforehand. But even still i thought through ninety percent of that game. I was going to lose and lose badly. Why because i the victory like the trapped as i was as we are scoring points out the game i was down thirty to forty points for most of the game but it wasn’t until the end of the game when all of the things that i had been doing caught up ha and i ended up winning by twenty points and i felt really bad at the end of it because i said i rock and best well and i spent half the game being like man. I’m so screwed. I don oh you. Winter i legitimately. I had no idea that this one mechanic was going to be worth so many points. I was just like well. I’m losing in all these other things. I’m going to focus on military because everybody else seems to be ignoring it for the most part. Maybe i can kind of catch up a little bit there sir but it does. It didn’t feel like. I was getting there until the very end of the game and then i just skyrocketed You know i think. I my endgame points. Almost one hundred point over one hundred points Just an in game whereas everyone else. I think had closer to like forty to fifty in game points So i i the reason i didn’t see that is because i didn’t go through a general when i get a new game how i learn it and that is i actually play through a few rounds of a game by myself I actually do that. Process of okay. So here’s what’s going to happen. And then i’ll look at okay. If the game were to end after two rounds what would my score be. And how much do each of these different things count towards my score which i think is really helpful and something that i think is missing in a lot of these video and not to downplay the benefit of the wonderful job that that all of these people who are content creators who are out there creating rules videos they do great work and they do an exceptional job and they they i think they do a great service to the to the hobby. But the one thing that i often miss is that strategy is that tactics. Because had i gone through that process before playing maracaibo and i was doing the teach for these other people rather than us watching the video which we did before the game i would have said. Don’t sleep on the military like the military’s don’t like if you if you sleep on this. If you let one person run away with it they’re going to dominate like that. I think is important for you to know on the front end. Yes i agree. So it’s kinda like in route where you need to say okay. We all need to keep everybody else in check like you can’t focus all your attention on one person because then somebody else is going to skyrocket.
00:40:02 – 00:45:06
It’s going to happen so the same thing in this game. America with with that military track of you let somebody run with it right. It’s going to run and so and that could feel that might not feel good at the end because imagine if if that person that ran was a person who’s played a lot of games and stuff and you’re the new person and you think you’re doing well doing well and then you just get slammed down And so. I think the more that you can help talk into that. Now leave some room of discovery but talk into here is the context of why some things might be important. Or how. Things are connected. Because you’re playing in an ecosystem of that board in that rule. Set right well. I mean for some context here. I ended the game right. So final round kim codes before in game scoring. I was losing by about forty points after game scoring. i beat the person who is in first place by about twenty five points and they were scoring. You know plenty of in game victory points as well so it’s not like you know. I just scored a whole bunch. And they scored nothing. They did really really well but because no one saw. No one knew the value of this particular mechanic. If you’re playing that and you know we’re all again players who play five or six games a week and you know we’re constantly learning new games and so there was no hard feelings and everyone was giving their good games. But if you’re new you watch that happen. That hurts and you may not want to come back to playing games. Yeah necessarily want to play that game again or those mechanics might scare people off from those mechanics if i introduction to it and so i really appreciate what’s leaning into that And i think it’s all really important so with that. I wanted to bring something else up because you talked talk about learning game. And so there’s two kinds of things of that expectation of like results right and so there’s two kinds of modes of the three modes. One is we can play the game. We played the game gay. We learned it was what it was. There’s a or like that’s what it was. There’s also a learning game where it’s like. Okay we’re all committing to this. And i think this would probably play it for you. Josh and your in your ten by five right of like hey this first game. We’re probably learning it but we know we’re committing to playing this game more or we know we might want to get it back to the table so giving grace to that first. Learning game is important. But you play through the whole thing. But there’s another factor and that is you can also set up the game play like two rounds but commit to that before you start the game and regardless of where people are at. It’s like okay. We’ve kind of seen how everything is going. Let’s make a decision. Do we continue or do we reset the practice round is another huge huge takeaway for me. Yes something that i have very very much adopted especially with with new gamers right talking about wingspan Because usually playing wingspan. I’m playing with myself and my wife and then some other people and so they can at least see what i did. They can see what my wife did. We may play two rounds so that can see a couple of different actions and then we can stop and say okay. So you’ve seen all of the actions now This this is all things. How do you feel. Do you feel like you can continue. Do you wanna reset and no you know no hard feelings if you want to reset right. That’s that’s the whole point of this and and pointing that out to beginning to say you know we’re going to play this little bit. You may not understand it right now. But i think you will and if we want to reset we can race that once you kind of get a grasp on it. I think that’s really helpful for breaking down some of the barriers to learning new games. Josh have you ever sensed any trepidation. From a new gamer or a gamer. Who’s like experiencing that game for the first time. It’s like that pressure to say. Actually i really want to reset all the time absolutely and i think that that’s part of you know having that commerce and i even get at one point. There’s a very specific game. I’m thinking of where i’m like. You are in a really bad spot right now. Like i’m just going to call a spade a spade. You’ve made a couple mistakes in your first rounds and i think you could do a lot better if we reset like would you like to reset and calling out and saying you know.
00:45:06 – 00:50:03
Hey no no shade right. This is your new to this But i can already tell. Like here’s here’s some some things that you could have done differently that would have enhanced your experience. Would you like to reset and try this again. and i think going about it in in a kind and generous way where it’s not a Again i think setting that expectation like hey we we might reset this right. We could i. I have no problem with that. It’s probably not hard. No you know usually especially with at that point you’re one or two turns into a game and so that’s you know worst case scenario you know you. You have to reshuffle the deck. Yeah right now right and redistribute cars out. Yeah and move things back to your player board like that’s really what it is now. That being said dawson. God we went into that. There’s another kind of thing that you were mentioning earlier that want to lean into and that is like different types of games may build some of this in right so there’s a thing called like interest scenarios or recommended i plays and then also campaign in legacy. We’ll throw them into this too. So what i mean by this. Is josh anaya. Both implying through. I m almost through my second campaign of it. You’re still working on it right. Yeah we’re about halfway through our first campaign and that is of sleeping gods the latest game from red raven games. So that’s the game that absolutely going to do a deep dive into because there’s a whole lot there. It’s going to be a special episode in which we end it. And then we have like a spoiler filled conversation post credits in case you want to avoid spoilers because it’s a it’s a it’s more of a legacy campaign game campaign game with that. It has an intro scenario in which you have this extra booklet. That’s like here’s how you learn the game and it it’s prescribed of like this is what you will do. This is what your dice roll is. So that way you get essentially walks you. Through five of the aspects of the game so walkies combat. It walks through the. Here’s your you. Interact the main player board. Here’s how you interact with the market. Here’s how you interact with insert a couple of things here and it’s telling you what to do and you’re moving components around so you get the feel of it now. I don’t know that that would translate over to a table tovia or simulator but in person that the that kinesthetic learning is real and then from there once you played the game if everybody knows how to play it you skip ahead and it says here’s what you start with now go So it’s really just for that first. Intro does what did you think of that you know so i really enjoyed it and i think i thought it was really good for for this game in particular right because of the way that this game plays i. I wasn’t a huge fan of the prescribed. And it’s not really a dice roll in this is a deck of cards. That that you flip right right. Yeah i didn’t like that. it was that prescribed. I more so enjoy the of having something where It tells you to do these certain things and and you are still able to fail or you’re are still able to succeed because it varies at some points said even tells you that like you fail Just so it shows you. What happens when you fail But i did think it was pretty pretty a pretty cool idea It reminded me a lot of the And i was just talking about it. But wingspan came out with the A little expansion pack that was the starter expansion Which has a full sheet. That says okay. Here are the cards that each person is going to start the game with and are the first four moves of the game And now you know what all the mechanics are so now you can go and do the rest of the game the way that you would you would wanna do it.
00:50:05 – 00:55:07
And we’re seeing this more too. I think so weird in the moment like it felt weird because it’s not something we’ve seen felt before yes You know i it very much. Felt like the tutorial of a video game yet where it won’t let you fail right on. That won’t let you you know. Continue on with the story until you get through this piece and that felt very uncomfortable but at the same time it was also very helpful now specifically when it comes to i sleeping gods when it came to the combat like for me going through a round of combat was incredibly helpful. Yeah the things. I found that the best to yeah. Everything else felt very Played a lot of games. It’s very easy to pick up on. It felt very samey in terms of like the mechanics right like i know generally how this works. This was all new But the combat was completely new and so that felt very helpful in that respect. Yeah and so. When i think of this i think it was a little too prescriptive but it was cool that it was there and i think it was very helpful in the long run. Especially with that combat. But when i think of this kinda interesting i actually think of a really good ted. That mark rober. Who’s a youtuber. new guy. Former nasa engineer for the curiosity rover all kinds of stuff. Makes you to videos. And one of he did a tedtalk though on design and he did it was on the super mario effect which is like the touchstone of like teaching for video games. Because how does it start. It starts with a little. Mario nothing else on the screen and have this little controller. And now you’re the you’re mario you try to go to the left. You’re media hit a wall and once you do that. The wall starts moving right. Starts moving to the right as you move to the right and then as you move a little to the right and now introduces your first challenge a goumba walking at you gotta figure out something to do is going to get to you eventually. If you let a hit you you can reset but eventually you learn. Oh i can jump. Or i can jump on it right and then eventually you encounter the next thing. Oh now here’s a brick and so. I like the interest in areas for kind of this layering out of concepts. I really like that. I think we. I think we need to. We haven’t yet found one that has lowering them out in just the right way. That still allows player choice. Like you know about i. I’m going to agree and disagree with little bit. That’s part of why we do this. I i would agree with you. That i don’t think we have found the right ingredients in most games and definitely. I don’t think we have founded in one off games -ture but i’m gonna skip down your list. Astles here a little bit to a game. That i think does this incredibly well. That is true charter stone. Yup that’s that’s a legacy game though. I’m saying i was saying you have a game game like no inter sleeping. Also a game game right like that’s true. It is also a legacy game. I should say right can be played as game as can’t charter stone. Once you get through the legacy for japan caveat right. I think for a legacy like a lot of legacy games. Expect you to have some knowledge base before you come into it. Yeah carson doesn’t really good this charter stone. You have no knowledge base coming into it and it really does. It gives you the option to choose now. The one knock that. I would put on charter stone as i having played through charged on twice. I kind of wish you could play the first game and then reset the board. Yeah play the first game again. Because i do think you can make mistakes in the first game. That hurt you for a while later for for a very long time but that being said i think for in terms of a game that lets you make mistakes and let you learn from those mistakes it. It does a really really good job of slowly drip feeding you these new mechanics and away that you feel like you’re really making progress throughout it.
00:55:07 – 01:00:03
Yeah and so. Here’s the thing about it though and you mentioned about like you can play it as more of a. This is a game boxes. Were playing this but once you get through the legacy and i agree with you. I wish it was like a removable sticker. Pack for the first one. And it’s like okay now. You know this now. Actually play. But i will say i think even with charter stone i think one of the other Knocks against it was that it was too light. The dial may maybe to dial down where it might not have enough agency without. It actually feels. Like i accomplish something and want to get that game back to the table for the rest of the legacy. Yes i think. I avoided that in my to play throughs of charter stone because i specifically set out to i. The first time we were rushing through trying to get you were moving and you’re trying to get through get it get it. Get it done both times. I played through it the second time knowing how light that first game was i like got the group together and i said okay. We’re gonna play charter stone. The first game is so light that it’s barely a game but it is important to teach the concepts and so we’re going to play through two games on our first session That way everyone did feel like okay in that second game i really accomplish something and i felt good. Yes agreed agreed. But i do. Your point is taken that that it is still a little too light in that first but the same could be true about pretty much every video games tutorial mode right. Yeah that’s true you tourelles because right you. You have to assume when you’re doing this that you’re starting zero that’s true that’s not us right right. We aren’t starting zero. We are starting at maybe on a new game like charter stone. Were starting at maybe a four out of ten. Okay just makes a difference. We’re we’re we’re we’re starting maybe a or even like a three. We’re starting a little bit above right. Eero ripe right now with that. The key of a legacy in a campaign game is that there’s usually a commitment. We’re going to be getting this to the game table for a longer amount of time. Theoretically and so then problem. You might be if you’re listening to this if you like okay. That’s great stop talking about stuff that’s gonna gonna play it over and over and over again. I just want what about just a static game and so there’s another thing that i think is important with this. I’m going to go one up josh. Oh to up for you google doc. In that is recommended. I play now when you hear that there can be the temptation. Oh this isn’t the real game yet. And i’m just gonna burn out there a well-designed game and i play. That’s still one. Hell of a game can be and so my example for that is food chain magnate by splutter right so the food chain magnate is you are a ceo of business and your actions are and how you build your organization chart like literally making your organization chart out of cards and you’re running a food chain but with that seeing you types of suffer notes yes. I agree With that you’re trying to compete against the other players to Make burgers pizza. Make lemonade and sell lemonade. And then also like sell soda or beer and then also how you do that. Is you market to the townspeople. And so there’s a lot of little layers and then there’s this whole like milestones thing of your bonus for being the first person to xyz so now you get this extra little power that no one else will get well. What’s fascinating about that. Game is two things one those milestones can be like way swinging. Do over has them be the at the start of the game before you do anything. Every player essentially has a as a one hundred two hundred and three hundred dollar card and they put that and seeing secret into the middle of the gameboard and everybody puts her card and puts it to the side. The deck has a certain amount of money in it. So there’s a money stack when the money runs out. those cards are revealed. And then you find out if you’re playing a long game short game medium game because one hundred. If both josh and i are playing and then at two hundred dollars to the bank if we both put in the three hundred dollars we now just added six hundred dollars to the bank.
01:00:03 – 01:05:08
So games going gonna go a whole lot longer so long term strategy is probably going to win over short term gains the recommended. I play a food chain magnate. This game has known to be pretty ruthless. And if you make a mistake early on you’re gonna be pummeled into the ground. But i love it. The recommended i play for that says. Do not touch the milestones. And you’re only playing till the money runs out once. Because i want you to understand the cool mechanics that are going on this game and in that alone. There’s a really fun game that you could just keep coming back to because it’s like how am i going to position my businesses right. How am i going to do my marketing right like. There’s a lot of depth there. So i think in a well-designed game that i play can be amazing. So when when you see that in a rulebook don’t just view that as oh that’s not the real game and i’m going to skip ahead because i’m a gamer. There might be a reason for them designing it and trust on that game designer to do that. Lean into so sh- wanting to put that out there by c. You also wrote another game on this whole recommended. I play thing. Yeah you know recommended first. Place is generally something that i’m not a fan of for the reason mentioned. See sleeping gods charter stone conversation. I generally find. I play throughs To be very boring. Yeah there are actually two games that i wanna mention here that i think did a really good job with first time. Play throughs one. We did a deep dive on not too long ago and that’s pendulum The because the recommended first time playthrough for pendulum is that you don’t play the live. Act the real time component in. Oh santa ana otherwise otherwise. The game is completely the same And that just works really well for learning so that then when you come back and you can play in the real time with sand timers You you already know what everything is doing. And you already know you’re strategies and tactics. Yep but the game that i think does this phenomenally. Well is brass specifically brass birmingham. Which i now just ordered by the way so excited. i which. I’m very very excited to hear your opinion of whenever you get a chance to play. I am probably going to be ordering lincolnshire myself. Okay cool but what do you think about brass. It’s learning games way recommended. I play so the recommended i play for. Brass is brass. He just they just tell you to stop. After the first era the era for for people who aren’t familiar with brass by I guess the new edition is by rockstar. Games designed by martin wallace Brass birmingham Is in in in the game of brass birmingham. You are playing through to era as you’re playing through the canal era and you’re playing through the railroad era. Same your yes as you build your technologies and industries and in the recommended. I play through of brass. They just tell you to stop after the canal era and then you score some additional points based off of your income which ellison birmingham doesn’t matter If you actually played the full game but the nice thing there is that the problem that i find introducing introducing people to brass is. It’s highly prone to analysis paralysis. It is can be an incredibly long game and it just makes your brain hurt and for me my brain her in the best possible way you and i are a little masochist it comes we know that but i mean brass. Maybe one of my favorite games of all times it. It is definitely working as way up there to the top two or three. I adore everything about this game. But it is very difficult and now it is in different ways from food chain magnate can also be quite brutal And and so. I think giving you an a similar way to food chain magnate of just saying the game is the same. You’re going to be doing the same thing. The thing that is different as you’re just gonna spend less time doing it so you can then spend more time analyzing it. Which is what. I think is great few. Leave a game and you’re still thinking about. How could i have improved that or your players. Are you’ve done a lot right right and with those recommended first place of brass or food chain magnate for me.
01:05:08 – 01:10:11
I think it sets you up to do that. ’cause you’re like oh so if we really wanted to continue like if if we were to extend this game what would i need to do to make up this point differential. Or what would. I need to do to maintain my lead agree with you. I’ve really like these mechanics choices because that is designed choices and so i encourage you if you see recommended i play. Don’t just scoff at it. Actually read it and if you’re familiar with the game and you’re introducing it to new people might be just the right thing trying instead of trying to teach them the whole thing now. Yes you’re being humbled a little bit and you’re not playing the whole experience that you’ve used to things like that but it’s as a teacher it’s not always about us. Yeah well and i do. I i will say. There’s the challenges. Well yeah four and this is something that i come across a lot right. Is i not so much with brass brass. I have a pretty good core group that no it and we can play it but a lot of games that i own. I may never get to play the advance bear version. That’s really disappointing for me. Or i may not get to play my expansions very often. Yeah because i really do. I want because i want my players to have a good time and so i’m going to play that role i play or i’m gonna play just the base game So there is a bit of a trade off there. But i think that the in thing to think about is if you can give those people a great first experience and leave them hungering to come back for more. You’re gonna be more likely to get that game back to the table so you can play it with the full mode or you can play it with all those expansions if more likely than if you try to throw everything in the kitchen sink at a new player and they just hate it and they never wanna play again. Not only you’ll get that game table but you’re probably buying more games and so you’ll get to play more games with those people too so it’s not just that one game so we’re going to put that out there so i want us to jump down a little bit and kind of be rounding this out josh. So some things that. I find helpful and i want you to lean into this. I’m going to give two examples but that when mechanics are in alignment with theme right. That can help a lot of it just clicks. I feel like i would be doing this like some. This is not one of the examples. I’m really giving you can talk about it. So in merlin game. We’ve talked about a lot. You talked about it even in the last episode you were talking about. How yes there is the knights of the like you’re going around the table but it’s not really about that it’s just a rundle right It’s not that immersive but there are games where things can feel super immersive like so the game for me on that that i would like to highlight is star wars rebellion when that is star wars in a box. But you get to play your own story but like the things you’re doing as the empire and putting out these forces all over the board you are feeling in control but you get really mad about the rebel rebel forces just kind of hiding from you. But that is the theme of that like the game. But also that whole franchise and is a rebel as rebels. You’re feeling like i don’t have enough. And i’m trying to scrape anything i can but again that is super immersed in that theme and so if you’re playing somebody who likes star wars the probably going to click onto it faster but the more of a gap between that player and that source material may not help you members a sorry to diverge but i just really wanna play star org rebellion with you now. I realize that we’ve never played that. I haven’t number one game. I haven’t played star wars rebellions since. Og justin was still in texas. Oh my gosh going my game bag then for when i come to colorado once fully vaccinated. That is happening so our hammer stop. I’ll bring that and some other stuff. Yeah you’re you’re one hundred percent correct. That is that was actually one of the earlier like heavy heavy games that i learned and the reason why i learned it so well and the reason why i felt so comfortable with it was because you just if you know anything about star wars yup you you understand what you’re trying to do And and it everything that you do feels like you are in that setting and so yes.
01:10:11 – 01:15:01
I think theme tied to mechanics is huge for first time or early gamers and so i have one more game to talk about. And that is red rising a game. That both josh. And i have preordered again. Hashtag acknowledged stone meyer. Podcasts second meyer game in this episode. Sorry you missed it with the first one fail as i agree because did charter stone. Wingspan and yup still has not done. Red rising is a game. That is coming out. We’ve both preordered it. It should be arriving hopefully in the next two weeks. I know there’s some shipping stuff but preordered like two weeks ago the fact that i’m getting it within a month amazing. Red rising is a game in watching jamie. Stag myers designed diaries from when he failed to make this game. Two years ago he said one of the core requirements of this is that he wants people to be able to play this game immersed in this theme however do have none of the game spoil anything of the book series and he wants somebody be able to read the book series and have that act of discovery and so for this game. That’s coming out. It is a rather light car game and it just happens to have the characters of this universe using the resources of this universe and josh like i am a book and a half into the series you are how are now. I have a quarter of the third book left him yet. Two and three quarters of a book so by the way. We’re both doing audio book on this due to sake of time and also I’ve actually been enjoying it sexually. The first audiobooks. I’ve been doing which is crazy to another day. I know he’s a great job he really does but the first one with the first book is sixteen hours. The second book is eighteen hours. So if you if you’re adding that up. Josh is already committed thirty four hours in the first two books to listen to this now. What that means is not. Everyone is investing that nor of the necessarily read these books yet. I highly recommend it. That or the audio book. I’m getting mine through my local library. Amazing so good but the theme really not connected to the game from what i’ve seen now. Obviously we’re gonna play it and we’re going to deep dive on it because even though hashtag nado meyer podcast. We’re going to deep dive on it. Yeah we are. We know we’re very invested so we should but that intentional design choice is playing out where the character cards that you have in. You’re playing with in your hand. They might not might not come until book three or book to etc. But you don’t know they’re associated with different events in the in the in the game and not in the game but in the the in the books. And i think that’s really cool but what that does though is if you’re playing with somebody who is immersed in a theme also think a little bit dune imperium on this If they know the theme and they like it they’re gonna click more and they’re going to have some other intrinsic and investment going back to knowles andrology their investment and motivation is going to be that much more resonant in them and you can capitalize on that as a teacher and so you can ask them. Has anyone read so to have you. Do you like star wars. If not like probably also don’t probably invest playing that game out there but it’s a fantastic game but if you know they’ve played if you’d like star wars lean into that if we know they’ve read read rising as are interesting phrase other. We read red rising. The you’re probably going to be able to be like okay cool. I can’t wait to see you. Get these different characters out here. Because i know you’re going to remember them from the books. Yeah i mean. Yeah that that alignment of theme for i. I think i really applaud the way that that jamie sabo did did the teaming red rising i think is brilliant and that it allows for everyone to enjoy the game yes and allows for a reason for players who who know the characters because it’s really the characters is where that theme comes in and we’ll talk more about that in a future episode. I’m sure yeah so some last things. I have here one. I’ve talked about this like from very early on this podcast when it was just me But games to me.
01:15:01 – 01:20:00
I used to work in the wine industry side note games to me like can be like a bottle of wine and so depending on what we’re having dinner or the experience we’re trying to craft might pull out a different game right and so acknowledging that based on players based on the experience we’re trying to have the teach might be slightly different and we might get a different game. That is a different level. And i think that helps teaching because you can be building towards more things so real quick matt who um i know. He’s up in toronto in lockdown. He offered up his four hundred games to his local community. And it’s like if you are needing games to play around the house between your union significant other. Let me know. And i’m going to give you a bundle of three games that you just give back to me. And what he told me is. He gave them games. That are more intro. And then depending on what he liked from that would they liked from that he would then give them the next level up so scaffolding. The experiences and game difficulty made those people more and more into the hobby. And then based on what you were talking about josh statement here and the beverages and time of day so maybe not if it’s a longer into a games Or a game night. Take out the heavier game to try and teach it. ’cause someone’s mental load might be a little tapped when i first learned brass josh. It was at eleven thirty at night. Yeah that’s a rough one. I i learned tapestry really during a twenty four hour game day. Oh my gosh and other food chain magnate. Unlike my second to last day my last full day of bg spring my first bg and line. Nine o’clock i was exhausted and spent. How did that tapestry again. Not a stone meyer. Podcast that tapestry. Go for your josh. You know we got through it. I enj- i loved the game. And i still love the game. It’s a fantastic game but it was rough it is there is a time and a place Now did i learn anything. No because i learned pendulum this this year three. Am during a twenty four hour day. So that’s just an skull tradition josh. Yeah we’re going. Make it a tradition to learn a new heavy heavy game at three. Am by like being cognizant of that for yourself and just having a pulse on your on on the people you’re playing with and just so that way because you might be setting yourself up for failure before you even begin to teach. That’s completely outside of your control but you can’t control of like how are we doing and having that open feedback something. I always do josh. I’m curious do this. No pressure if you don’t but some games don’t come with enough rules. Reference sheets or prayer player reference sheets. And so i usually go on. Bg and print them. There are some great ones on bg. I don’t though. I just bought my first printer because neo person ever. I didn’t buy a printer until i was thirty josh. I wouldn’t have brought a printer. If i didn’t need a print out my own papers to edit them for classes. The only reason. I have it so now i probably will be printing. Some reference cheats. Now that i have the ability to do so yeah. So ’cause like pet peeve of mine is like the original cabinet and it came with like one set of all these tiles in this little menu or the same thing twilight imperium fourth edition. It had like one reference. Thanks i just print them out for everybody again. There’s privileges being able to afford that or have access to a printer. Don’t get me wrong but if you can do little things like that that are a reference to person whether or not necessarily having to ask you the question and they can they have something they can work off of and you teach from it can also go a long way but also just one more tip. And then how about you around us out and that is trying to avoid jargon So i know like when radha game convention it might be more of time to use jargon. ’cause you’re probably there with pretty deep hobby gamers but maybe not saying the phrases of like. Whoa it’s just a deck builder and we’re gonna be using some worker placement compa actions because that also means i know how deck builders work and i know what it means to do work replacement and you’re assume that yeah debt building engine building replacement. Yeah so it’s like what is it.
01:20:01 – 01:25:05
What is this franken game. Yeah and just because it’s just because you that make sense for you doesn’t mean to make sense for somebody else and so walking them through kinda dasta before super helpful and help clarify things because sometimes games are using symbols. This is a thing and sleeping gods and we’ll talk more about amongst everything by like it will have symbols on your characters but it uses the words on the cards and so anything you can do to help connect that symbolic like the symbols to actually the words as helpful and make helping make those exchanges explicit for the players around the table. Don’t assume that somebody thinks that strength means by sept right so just. Don’t yeah just talk about through another really useful thing for reference sheets. Is you know even if you don’t have even if the designer or the publisher did not include a reference sheet. You can often find some really handy reference sheets on bg. It’s for for those things right. The just the symbolic sometimes batch just handy to have if you have the ability to print something out. That’s just like a quarter sheet of paper that just has all the symbols and the words that they are associated with Something as simple as that can be incredibly handy so josh how about you around us out. Yeah i mean this. We went longer than i expected to go on this and i think that we could probably go for another hour easily and still be nowhere near through everything that that. I think we could talk about in this topic. I this is something that i want to continue to revisit and i again one of the reasons i wanted to bring this topic to this podcast is. I would love to see some some feedback from from our audience and from the listeners. And so if if there are tips and tricks things that you find useful or unuseful If there are we didn’t touch on rule books and the positives and negatives of different rule books. And well my gosh could be an episode and self exactly and so there are just there are things that you find are helpful to your game group that you like to explore when you’re teaching or if things that you experienced once learning a game and you wish more people would do it because it was really helpful would love to hear some feedback and some engagement in this because one of the things that we learn very early when you start working in educational spheres as everyone learns differently. Everyone brains work differently and so you know a lot of what i try to do. When i’m cultivating a new learning experience for someone is to try and identify all of those different types. So i have the game setup so the people who are tactile and learn the conceit or people who are visual can see everything and i’m telling people things so people who are auditory can hear what what is being said and you know maybe we play around for the for the kenneth static learner As a practice round and trying to work towards all of those different learning styles If there’s something that you think is important let us know. I’m engaged with us. Give us some feedback. I think this is a great conversation that we can extend and continue to continue to have here. Yeah and i’m looking forward to that. So if you wanna reach out to us please feel free to shoot us a message on facebook or emails or game. Impact demo dot com. We’d love to hear that and talk about it on later episode. Because another thing we could talk about zig because you can talk about this for a long time but like just to put this out. There like crafting your game and in having the games that you’re going to most likely play. And then the teasers for worth those bill to so that way they wanna come back to the next week so that’s also like another thing we could even throw into this. I’m really glad we’ve talked about this. Yeah we did go along. So i hope that’s okay for everybody but also honestly with all the frozen and everything else that went on in texas. Justin i wanted to catch up a little bit full transparency and so this is really nice for us and hopefully it’s been really helpful for you and if there’s been something helpful in all of this please make sure to rate this episode in your podcast up really means a lot. It helps with all the discover ability. And who knows if you’re going to a game night and somebody who’s listening to this episode. They might teach you games better so the better. You can help this. Discover ability greatly appreciate it and might circle back and help you in the end. But that being said we’re looking forward to doing many deep dives we’ve mentioned about some upcoming games so definitely stay tuned.
01:25:05 – 01:25:19
I’m not gonna lie. There’s been a lot of kick starters back lately and picking up different things and so we have a whole lot to talk about Coming up soon so definitely stay tuned for our latest episode but until then go have your positive impact on the world.